Full transcript:
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SPEAKER 1: Harvard Divinity School.
SPEAKER 2: "Christianity in Iraq-- Challenges and Hopes." November 17, 2022.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
TIM O'DONNELL: Well, good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Harvard Catholic Forum. I am Deacon Tim O'Donnell, Director of the Forum. And I'm delighted to welcome you to this important event, especially, of course, your excellency, Archbishop Warda and colleagues. And also everyone here, especially including Deacon Sermed from the Chaldean Catholic community here in the Boston area.
At the Harvard Catholic Forum, Catholic thought and culture engage the Academy, the professions, and the arts. And through them, the contemporary world. Check out our website at HarvardCatholicForum.org to learn about our lectures, noncredit courses, sacred music events, and summer seminar, or to sign up for our email program announcements.
A special thanks go to our co-sponsors-- the Philos Project, the Harvard Kennedy School Catholic Caucus, Harvard's Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations Department. And thank you, too, to the event staff here at the Divinity School.
Please note this event will be archived on the Harvard Catholic Forum YouTube channel. So please share the link to that channel with friends and colleagues who are unable to be with us now. Our postevent YouTube views always exceed the number of people that we reach on day one.
So after Archbishop Warda's talk, we will have a time for some, I hope, quite robust Q&A. And to facilitate that, you should have received a note card and pencil when coming in. Please write your questions on the card. At around 5:00, one of my colleagues from the Harvard Catholic Forum will collect the cards and bring them to me. I will pass on as many of the questions as I can.
Our gathering this evening is due to the remarkable efforts of Ryan Zoellner, a graduate fellow at the Harvard Catholic Forum, and an MTS candidate here at the Harvard Divinity School. While doing a stint last summer in the Office of the Prime Minister of Iraqi Kurdistan, Ryan was able to renew his earlier acquaintance with Archbishop Warda and coordinate the many arrangements that have brought us here together this evening. So Ryan, thank you for everything. And I now turn it over to you to introduce our speaker.
[APPLAUSE]
RYAN ZOELLNER: Well, thank you, Deacon Tim. And good afternoon, everyone. It's an honor to have you here with us. My name is Ryan Zoellner. I'm a fellow of the Harvard Catholic Forum, and a second-year MTS at the Divinity School.
I first learned of Archbishop Warda in the winter of 2018. A friend of mine was attending mass in DC, and His Excellency was there to greet and interact with students. He actually invited my friend, and later me, to Catholic University in Erbil.
And while this trip did not happen that summer, this single event, occasioned by Archbishop Warda, was actually the starting point of my interest in Iraq. Four years later, I'm still studying the region, and had the pleasure of finally meeting His Excellency in person as I was working in Kurdistan this summer.
Archbishop Warda has become the face of those who fight to defend religious freedom in the Levant. I am one among many who have been drawn into this issue because of his influence. He has spoken at political fora across Iraq in the Middle East, the UN Security Council, the White House, Buckingham Palace, and most recently at the G20 summit in Indonesia.
However, I would submit, and I think he would agree, that many of his greatest achievements remain at home. A pastor of his flock, Archbishop Warda was educated and attended seminary in Iraq, received a Master's in Europe. But immediately returned to be ordained in Iraq and has served in his homeland ever since.
In Iraq, he has founded an NGO, a hospital, and actually more schools than I could count. That's true. He is founder and President of Catholic University of Erbil, which I've had the privilege of visiting. And two factors bear mentioning about CUE.
For one, it is designed to provide quality, nonsectarian education first to Iraq's refugee population. It does so with an exceptional academic reputation in the region. Yet, a campus humbly built of the same materials as a typical IDP camp. For another, Archbishop Warda completed the project in 2015, as the Islamic State captured Mosul some 40 miles away-- a winsome refusal to obscure the faith, even in the face of perilous challenge.
In 2015, he was a driving force behind House Resolution 390, which formally recognizes the genocide committed against the Yazidi and Iraq's religious minorities by the Islamic State and secured funding for reconstruction. In 2021, when His Holiness Pope Francis made the first ever papal visit to Iraq, Archbishop Warda was instrumental in facilitating many of the cross-confessional dialogues that continue to give hope to the region.
Finally, I will say that among us this afternoon, we have students, faculty, historians, linguists, clergy, Chaldeans, Roman Catholics, Syriac Orthodox, all of whom have found us and the Archbishop, not the other way around. I believe that this speaks not only to the import and exigency of our topic, but of the influence and leadership which Archbishop Warda brings to it. It is then without further ado that I ask you to please help me in welcoming His Excellency, Archbishop Bashar Warda.
[APPLAUSE]
BASHAR WARDA: Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Ryan, for the introduction. And it's really my honor and privilege to be here with you to share with you our story. And today, I come here to bring good news. But, of course, it needs a little background. And let's start with a short video that we prepared, and our-- I mean, students, our staff at the CUE have prepared specifically for this occasion to start with.
[VIDEO PLAYBACK]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
- Welcome to Ankawa, which is an 8,000-family Christian enclave within the capital of Kurdistan, Erbil. There are many Christian churches in Iraq, of which the largest is my church, the Chaldeans. We have a wonderful community that is served by six churches, four schools, three nunneries, the Catholic University in Erbil, and the Maryamana Hospital. Our churches are packed, and our young catechists.
- Christians are leaving the country through high unemployment, oppression, persecution, and lack of basic rights. In 2003, we numbered over 1 million. Now, we are less than 300,000 in a population of 42 million. As a marginalized, but educated, we take our destiny in our own hands, creating structures to keep our people in Iraq through education and health care.
The Catholic University in Erbil is a key anchor project in keeping Christianity in Iraq. There is a huge need to educate the young people of Iraq in critical thinking in a country that learns by rote. We need critical thinkers to help change a nation constantly in internal conflict.
Most of our students are IDPs from all over Iraq who fled from the South and parts of the Nineveh plains to the safety of Kurdistan. Out of adversity, we create hope through education. The University now has 280 students-- 207 Christians, 24 Muslims, 49 Yazidis. Over 50% of our students are female. The private universities do not provide a religiously safe environment for minorities. Only the CUE can readily fill this highly important gap in Iraqi society to create a culture of coexistence.
The destruction of livelihoods by ISIS meant parents could not afford higher education for many. This meant leaving the country. We must give these young people free education, as it encourages the whole family to stay and not to emigrate.
And parallel to the papal visit to Iraq, the university set about creating a co-donorship program worldwide to provide free education. ACN Germany is the first major foundational core donor with their Pope Francis scholarship. And Knights of Columbus has recently joined at a similar financial level. Other donors are KAS, DAAD-- Germany, and Mitsubishi-- Japan, SRG-- United States. The university has been working with USAID and with our new NGO, Ankawa Humanitarian Committee, AHC.
The University has seven academic degrees-- accounting, architects, computer science, English language, international relations, IT, Medical Laboratory Science-- MLS. In 2022, the following departments will be established-- civil engineering, pharmacy, nursing, and oriental studies, and a new library. Plans are going ahead for a medical school.
We must expand the university building to accommodate the growth in the new departments and students. It will require a huge investment, but great education will create people for jobs, building, consolation, reconciliation, and social cohesion to eventually bring my country together.
On the first anniversary of his papal visit, he said, "Iraq without Christians will no longer be Iraq. Because Christians, along with other believers, contribute strongly to the country's specific identity as a place where co-existence, tolerance, and mutual acceptance have flourished over since the first centuries."
The Catholic University was a center of the planning and operations for the momentous visit and the spectacular Holy mass for His Holiness, and the 10,000 in the congregation. The young people showed their capabilities. They are the future for Christianity in Iraq.
We need help over the next five years as we build livelihood programs and educate our people. Please come and see our mission to keep Christianity in Iraq. Thank you. I pray to God to grant you his blessing always.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[END PLAYBACK]
BASHAR WARDA: So when people ask about the cause of ignorance, backwardness, corruption, religious, and social extremism that exclude and marginalize minorities in Iraq, I ask myself, how can I, higher of the Church, of the martyrs, face this religious and cultural social crisis through my Christian faith? How can I respond to all these deep problems in Iraqi society? How can I be with my Christian people, who for nearly 2,000 years have suffered from persecution upon persecution.
It was the Persian rules until the seventh century; Mongol invaders in the 14th century; Ottoman and Turks in the 20th century. And most recently, our own 21st century witnessed the horrific acts of ISIS murderers. Where in all of this is the place of Christians in Iraq?
It's true that the cycles of violence, physical persecution, directed against Iraqi Christians is in a period of surface calm in these past few years. But our history has taught us that these periods are always temporary. Meanwhile, physical death is only one way that oppressors can work to kill the faith of the minorities.
Today, we Christian in Iraq continue to suffer from the same structural marginalization which has worked against us for centuries. At its base, it comes from the belief of the ruling classes that non-Muslim minorities have no rights to be equal citizens of Iraq.
Combined with deteriorating and mostly dysfunctional political situation, and ever-present corruption throughout government, civil administration and society, today's Christians are effectively at perhaps the most marginalized period of our history. This marginalizations continue to place pressure on our people to emigrate. And this is a great challenge to us.
Such marginalization is not merely the product of prevailing attitudes, but enshrined in the Iraqi Constitution. It is a Constitution that was established in a manner that follows the teaching of Islamic law. The second article of that Constitution stated that there would be no code or mandate or any article against Islamic Sharia. This means that all non-Muslims are denied their full rights as citizens. He/she is at the best, second class.
And I should note to you that our present Constitution approved in 2005. And its failure to provide legitimate freedom of religion is a legacy to the minorities of Iraq from the time of US control of our country. The reality and moral responsibility of this is a topic which has yet to be properly addressed. And perhaps, here at this great university, there might be some with the courage to give it a close examination it deserves.
Our adversity has taught us many things. Most importantly, even in the darkest time, it taught us in a deep way to us to rely on our faith in Jesus Christ. It requires us to self-examine ourselves, and is ask if we are truly walking with Christ. It taught us the true meaning and sacrifice of providing to comfort others in need of help.
In 2014, over 13,000 families, displaced families, nearly 100,000 people, fled from ISIS to Erbil seeking safely-- safety and our churches and parishes. Together, with my fellow Christian bishops of other churches, we worked together to provide food, medicine, and housing for them with the help of Christian aid agencies.
Of course, we provided pastoral care. But they needed comfort and physical support first. These were very difficult times. And it was not clear that we would survive. Today, we thank God for all the help that was given to us, and we were able to survive this time. And in surviving this time, we turned adversity into something wonderful in Christ. This is how the Holy Spirit works within and around us if we use our God-given talents.
You may ask what lessons I bring to you from Eastern Christianity. As I have just discussed, the key is faith in adversity. I also bring to you the fundamental question that each and everyone needs to ask of themselves, [INAUDIBLE] your own attitude. Does Christ dwell in me, or does love of this world? If Christ dwells in me-- in you, then give your life to Him.
What I mean is to give each decision you make in your life, young lives, to him and not to yourself. You need to do this by meditating, fasting, and praying over any decision, and then listen. We live in a world that does not listen. You are the future of your country, just as my young people are. So listen deeply to the Holy Spirit.
To understand the position of the church in Iraq, it is the true shepherd to whom the people turn and all their problems. We are with our people from birth, catechism, education, job, marriage, until they part for the world. There is no case in which the priest and the bishop refuse to provide help and support.
I receive those for spiritual guidance and pastoral counseling, as I receive those who are looking for work, those who have a quarrel with their neighbors, someone who has problem in the workplace, someone who has a compliment-- or to complain at the police station, someone who needs medical help, someone who needs mediation with officials, someone who needs a scholarship.
The door of the church, my church and every church, is open to all pastoral and social situations. We are there for the entire person, not just for his or her spiritual needs. And recently, we have started receiving non-Christian for the same reasons we receive Christians, which is a wonderful step for a real dialogue of life with others. We are there for all people.
The church responsibility is great throughout history. It has preserved the language, the heritage of the region. It was a pioneer in establishing educational and health centers. Christians communicated with Muslims coming from the Arabian Peninsula throughout education and health.
So they established the House of Wisdom-- Bayt al-Hikmah-- translated philosophical work into Arabic, and maintained leadership and binding science. They had a rich dialogue of life that was suitable ground for a dialogue of religion. Therefore, we continue our mission to maintain our active Christian presence throughout our educational and health institutions.
The Catholic Church in Iraq has a university. Also, there are 17 schools belongs to churches and religious orders; three hospitals, which provides safe work, opportunities for our believers, knowing that we must work life together in solidarity with one another united by faith in Christ. We know that the Holy Spirit is with us in facing challenges and teaches us how to be church that present with its believers-- a church that's open to the needs of the people around it.
The priest-- every priest-- in Iraq or bishops does not say I have nothing to offer you, dear believer. But I will try my best to help. There is no way that someone will knock the door of the church, and you tell him, listen, I have nothing to do with your problem. You have to try. You have to call. You have to call someone. You have to do something, so that he would realize and really feel that he came to the church and to his shepherds.
Thus, the church, with its persecuted believers, and those who experience marginalizations, become a home that welcomes all and reminds them that we are all responsible for the future we are building together. And I always keep telling to my people, if we do not have a future, we don't have the right to talk about our past. First, build your future. And then you will be proud to talk about the old days, and the past, and how things was in the first centuries.
Against this background, where is the future for Christians in Iraq? Where is a place of peace? And how can we, Christian, help our country to arrive there? The answer is to bring peace through education. And that's my contribution with other bishops' and churches' contribution.
I have chosen education to be the key antidote to face the challenge of keeping our Christian presence in Iraq, knowing that we have an authentic and respected history as educators, a vibrant and young community of workers, and many friends at home, and as well abroad, who have stood with us in solidarity and wanted us to continue our Christian presence.
The people of Iraq are at heart good people, but they have suffered tremendously. In this suffering, their hearts have been hardened. In the great injustice of this suffering, they have committed crimes and fallen into a misery of human discord, feeding fires of war and hatred. We Christian and other minorities, such as the Yazidis, were their most common victims.
However, I do not want my people to remain in a state of victimhood. Because this state will generate hatred and revenge and kill their daily life. And, of course, kill their future. There is no future in the state of the victimhood.
Instead, we must work with all Muslims, Christians, Yazidis alike, to re-educate people, to build a future for all so that we can defeat the evil in our society and break its grip on our country. We know that there are millions of Iraqis who want peace, who sympathize with us and with our case, and want us Christians to stay because we are the voice of peace.
I believe that a well-educated and peaceful religious upbringing is the most effective element in establishing justice and society, and creating interreligious solidarity. Therefore, I established five schools and a university to allow the young people to learn how to coexist peacefully together. And in the schools and university and a hospital, we keep telling them these places are places that we build together-- we build together. So it's not a responsibility of the administration to do so, to make you realize it's your home. It's a responsibility of all to build all of these institutions together.
Influential in the life of a positive civil societies, most importantly, student learn to listen and to cooperate with one another, take care of each other, and defend one another when the needs arise. I believe that the story of every student matters, and that each life is a precious creation of God and deserve of dignity.
The most important of this effort is the Catholic University in Erbil, or CUE opened in 2015. It is the first Catholic University in Iraq, and the only Catholic University in Middle or Near East to include the word Catholic in its name. We are now fully accredited by the Ministry of Higher Education in Erbil and in Iraq. And we have 400 students. We enter our next academic year with 600 expected for the following years. We held our second graduation ceremony in the past September with 50 graduates.
Since 2014, we have opened four schools with mixed faith, three churches, new hospital, a major Catholic Center for over 2,000 of our young. We have events like Ankawa Youth Meeting, where over 1,600 young people from all over Iraq came to Ankawa for three days of spiritual retreat and friendship.
International visitors and workers frequently comment on how healthy our young people are in their spiritual and moral lives. We send our young people, graduates, to Australia, Italy, UK, and the US to really better their education and come back to be leaders in our community. And the average age of people who are working with me and leading all of these institutions would be 29 years or 30 years old. And [? Vida ?] is just one of them here.
The way to achieve their ambitious is not to allow desperate victimization and hatred to creep into their lives. Rather, they must be properly educated, remaining faithful to our Christian message, and to establish a good family, knowing that they are responsible with me for our Christian presence.
Our roots in Christ are firm, as I thank God for the attendance of more than 80 young men and women who are volunteering with us as a catechist in the field of religious upbringing children and youth. I thank God for the contributions of volunteers in providing food, medicine, housing, and educating-- education to the displaced people.
It was truly fantastic to witness the dedication and participation of 300 young people in preparing for the mass of Pope Francis in March '21. As the world was still struggling with the pandemic, preparing stadium for the papal mass to accommodate 11,000 believers with all logistic measures required. And everyone knows how much this logistic issues would require-- the pope's mass in Iraq during pandemic. And imagine how that thinks.
And our young people did very, very good job. And I was really proud that by 9:00 in the evening when everything finished, the local media, the Kurdish local media, showed pictures from the stadium showing that the stadium is tight, clean. And there was a post written in Kurdish, "Those people deserve respect."
Because our young people did not leave the stadium just like that. They've cleaned the stadium from every trash and handed to the officials. I do not forget also the volunteers who recently supported nearly 1,600 Christian young people from all over Iraq in three-day spiritual retreat in Ankara.
As it for you here, our young people are the future. As shepherds, the church in Iraq is working to give them the tools to be that future. And it is an education that we hope to provide leaders and jobs. Within our institutions, we were able to provide so far 570 jobs coming from the school and university and the hospital.
Unemployment in the Christian villages is over 70%, as there have been no livelihood programs of only significance since the defeat of ISIS. Most of the students at the University rely on our ability to provide them with scholarships, as their parents do not have the money to educate them. And if we cannot provide this education for them, they will leave the country and head to the diaspora. In this light, the Catholic university can be it can be seen as the key structure to keep Christianity in Iraq.
While we have received generous grants throughout the Catholic world, including the Italian Bishop Conference, the Knights of Columbus, and Aid to the Church in Need, we continue to seek both human and financial support at all levels. If you feel called to help us in this mission, I will be very happy to speak with you at the close of this presentation.
Also, I have a handout to show you that-- how you could really help. And also, last but not least, remembering us in your prayers. Adopt us. Come to see us. Already we have young Catholic graduates from around US, from [INAUDIBLE] who are with us now teaching at our schools and assisting in an important role at our university, where all study is in English. Do not be put off by what you see in the media. And Ryan could tell you that we live in a very safe environment. All of the international people who come to Ankara Erbil say it is much safer than most cities in the US.
[LAUGHTER]
It's true. And this-- God send us into a battlefield, not to a garden. Our battlefields may not all be the same. But as members of the universal church, we are all part of the same universal mission, serving one another and saving souls. In Iraq, even though faced with many difficulties and dangers, we are doing our best to stay true to this mission.
I pray that you will reflect on what I have shared with you tonight and ask yourselves whether your own calling might somehow involve your brothers and sisters in Iraq. We are praying for you as well. And I hope that the paths of our missions will meet again. Please remember among the Christians of Iraq, you will always find yourselves among friends and brothers and sisters.
I finish by saying that Christians must remain in Middle East. I am of the gospel. The gospel came from East-- from the East. And we must all keep the torch of faith shining. The universal church voice remains influential and directed towards building a fraternal society as His Holiness, Pope Francis, is always calling us. This is what-- this was his message during his visit to Iraq from St Matthew's gospel, "You are all brothers and sisters." Thank you. May our Lord Jesus Christ bring you love and joy.
[APPLAUSE]
TIM O'DONNELL: Thank you so much, Your Excellency. We both have to speak into the microphone here. I haven't had a chance to look at the questions yet. So I'm going to ask you one to start with.
This provision that you mentioned in the Constitution, which gives you concern about the status of Christians and other religious minorities in Iraq-- is there a path forward there?
BASHAR WARDA: To be honest, I don't see any way that our country will change this article in the Constitution. Because to be realistic, we live in Middle East, Islamic countries. And those Islamic countries definitely would like-- would love to see the Sharia as the main source of the Constitution.
What have not changed over 1,400 years, it will not be changed. I think this is the mentality, that our ancestors have learned how to live with Islam and a dialogue of life. So I would say, yeah, we keep trying. We will keep-- I mean, I'm sure our politicians-- it's the task of our politicians to go to the Parliament and insist on full citizenship rights, and which would mean that we have to take this article from the institution.
But I don't-- realistically speaking, I don't see that there is something coming on this issue. It's just you have to insist on this is not-- this is not really the way for full citizenship. You have-- we have to keep this voices strong and strong in that sense.
TIM O'DONNELL: Good. Thank you. What do Americans most misunderstand about Iraq and Christians in the Middle East?
BASHAR WARDA: Oh, they missed everything.
[LAUGHTER]
Oh, yes. Yes. So many of them. So many-- I mean, I was surprised when I was-- in 2003, I was a parish priest. And officers, generals-- I don't speak about soldiers. But generals, they did not know that Christianity is there since, I mean, 2,000 years. They always were asking when you converted? Really? Really, in that sense.
I mean, yeah. I think before going to a country so complicated by the diversity of the communities, there was a need to know the culture, religion, attitudes, customs-- so many issues related to that. And those-- I mean, even those who came, some of them were coming with the attitude of saying, OK, we are Christians from America. We would like to convert you to Christ. We would like you to know Christ. I come here to share with you my Christian faith. I'd like you also to know Christ. OK.
Yeah. I mean, these simple-- not to mention the misunderstanding concerning political. That's a-- but just focus on the question. Most of the people who came and were on the streets-- soldiers-- did not know anything about-- some of them respectfully, really, they came and listened. And they were trying to know.
We are 2,000 years of Christianity. Please tell us more. And some of them also invited me to speak about that. But yeah, I would say ignorance. There was a state of ignorance on that.
TIM O'DONNELL: Yeah. Question about the scope of destruction under ISIS, in particular, taking churches, in particular, in your diocese, and maybe more broadly, Christian churches in Iraq, how many were destroyed or near destroyed versus remain standing? Where did things sort of stand at the end of all of that?
BASHAR WARDA: No. My diocese was not affected by the ISIS attack directly. But the consequence of-- because I live in Erbil in the safety of Kurdistan, people came from Mosul and Nineveh Plain, where we had over 15,000 families between these two big, big area. They fled to the safety of Kurdistan. And immediately, they came to churches.
So I had to close the Cathedral for two weeks because it was full of refugees. Our families refused to go to the UN camps. That wasn't-- so within 24 hours, some 48 camps were created in the city of Ankara for that.
But since 2003, over 60 churches and shrines were destroyed or bombed. Over 1,200 people were killed, including bishops and priests, deacons, not to mention those who were kidnapped. So you see, the destruction allowed all of these groups to operate. So there was a direct persecution against Christians-- bombing churches, killing Christians because they are Christians.
And there was also a time or place for the criminal groups to kidnap, ask for ransom, kidnap. And this really have led middle class and above to leave the country because kidnapping and asking for ransom was really devastating, while another people chose to come to the Diocese of Erbil to settle there. So since-- for example, since 2003, from 2,000 families in the area of Erbil, today we are talking about 8,000 families. So between-- I mean, between the South and North, there is a difference.
TIM O'DONNELL: This pulls together perhaps a couple of the questions that have come in. So many Christians are leaving Iraq because of the lack of jobs and so on. Of the graduates of the university, and recently and in coming years, do you see enough jobs to keep them in Iraq?
BASHAR WARDA: To be honest with you, we, as church leaders, we know that when time would come and people-- visa issue would be facilitate-- we would see many of our families would leave. Because, you see, over the last 100 years, Christians have suffered at least three big crises-- devastating one-- which forced them to be internally displaced. They've lost hope in the land.
However, we, as a church, we have to maintain and remain faithful to the mission. As I said, so far, 570 jobs. And, of course, when this project will grow, needs more and more. The graduate of our university, thank God, they found a good jobs, even some of them in government departments, which is great.
I would say, as a church, we have to be faithful to the mission. I don't say we would be successful, but at least contribute. So I would see my job as contributing this part, other bishop, other churches, other-- I mean, so together, each one of us could really do something in the face of this challenge.
If we stop and say, yeah, everyone would emigrate, and it's useless. But for the time being God would always ask us, OK, what you've done? What you have done? I mean, there are some good opportunities there, good chances there.
The grace of God, there's-- I mean, just the audience of today coming to listen is God's sign for me that there are some people who really care in a way. They will go and spread the word. That's one of God's messages as well. So we will do our part, relying on his part on that.
TIM O'DONNELL: Yeah. Just-- forgive me just a minute here. Your efforts in the university, and even other relief efforts, have gone beyond the Christian-- your own Christian community. Can you talk a little bit about how important that is-- why you've taken that on in that way and so on?
BASHAR WARDA: First of all, that we care for those who are in need. And those who come to the church, usually we don't ask who you are, from where you are. Even today-- I mean, as a bishops we know that. I mean, he's in need. She's in need. And you can do something. That's it. We help.
And for us, we know, for example, the Yazidis, they have suffered a lot. Especially in the beginning, they did not have the structure that the church has, like the NGOs, this church, parishes-- this was not there. So we had to be with them on this, not just helping them materially, but at the same time also helping them to be a voice for their suffering.
And thank God, in the recent years, they have good NGOs. Nadia Murad is one of them, Yazda-- it's all of those. And we have, at the Catholic University, have shown a commitment that we would help them also in establishing their academic center in Sinjar, which is the capital of the Yazidis.
It's just a call that he/she is in need, and you are there. You have to offer your help-- the help that's being given to us. I mean, so most of the-- I mean, the help that we've received was given to us freely. You receive for free, give for free. That's the message.
At a certain point we were a bit cautious that-- because one of the Yazidi parliamentarians have raised concern that Christians are using this tragedy to come-- I mean, to evangelize. So we've said, no, no. We will work low profile. Send your people. We will help them. They will help your people in that sense. So even in that time, we are cautious about really to be authentic in the way we help.
TIM O'DONNELL: You do through this have people entering the church, I assume, too.
BASHAR WARDA: Yeah.
TIM O'DONNELL: And does that cause tension or--
BASHAR WARDA: For 1,400 years, we as a Christians of Middle East, have learned that evangelization is forbidden. There is a freedom of worship in the Constitution, but there is no freedom of conscience. So there is always converted one way to Islam, not the other way. But-- and we maintain that. Because we don't like to endanger our community.
Within that framework, as long as you don't evangelize, you are-- in the land of Islam, you are in the land of peace-- Dar al-Islam, Dar es Salaam. Because you are keeping the boundaries, in a sense. But it's within the mentality of the Islamic Sharia, once you start evangelizing you are crossing the borders. You are waging a war against Islam. And jihad would be justified against you. That's the rule there.
Since ISIS, I've told the imams, listen, from now on, anyone would come to the church and ask about Christ, about the gospel, I have something to offer them. Because we did not break the rules. You broke that rule because you attacked peaceful communities in Mosul and Nineveh Plain. And you asked them Islam, enslavement, or sort. That was the three conditions.
So the people made the fourth-- the choice was to leave. So yeah. We-- anyone who comes to the church now asking and requiring and making any request concerning Christianity, yes, we are there.
TIM O'DONNELL: OK.
[APPLAUSE]
All right. This is a two-part question. How do you maintain a personal posture of forgiveness and love towards those who are actively persecuting and killing Christians in Iraq? That's the first half of the question. I'll go on to the second half. What counsel would you share with Christians in the US who are entrenched in an us versus them narrative relative to Islam?
BASHAR WARDA: As I said, I don't like to be in the state of victimhood because being in that area-- it's an area of hatred, angry, fear-- everything is there. So I always tell-- when I counsel the people, even if they have any issues, I mean, family issues, it's always healthy to move from that, to be healthy, and to see the good opportunities.
It's difficult. It's not-- I mean, especially when it's been hurt deeply, when people were kidnapped or cold or rape, especially when these issues emerge, it's not easy. But it's a journey that if they find it safe to leave, they would leave it. And that's what we maintain and try to maintain at the university, is to make sure that it's a safe environment.
I give you an example. We created an office, a service at the university, of trauma counseling, especially for the Yazidis. And we have one who-- she is a survivor. And so many of them were really in a very dramatic situation.
And the counselor, Mr. Norbert, he's from a German training background. He found it very difficult to reach out to those people because we don't really expose ourselves. We try to keep all of this inside. And yeah, the consequence of all of this pressure would be seen in different ways.
So I've told him, you cannot really reach to those people this way-- direct way, common speak. They will not-- tell them how about you are Yazidi young people. You come from a group of people who have suffered a lot.
I could train you-- train you to be counselors for your people there. So you are not in my sessions as victims, but as formators-- formation of the formators, in that sense. And we know the first lesson in counseling is to counsel yourself. That's why.
And after months, he reported to me that they started really talking about their pain and their painful-- it's just when they feel that it's safe. Yes, I could have-- I follow from time to time the issue of politics here. Yeah. There is a lot of hatred language. It's different. It's completely different. I mean, it's not the way that politicians usually talk to each other in the '70s and '80s. It's a different language.
But even when it comes to inter-religious dialogue, I would say the best way is to draw the good stories from the dialogue of life. Our Lord taught us in the Good Samaritan story that he deliberately told the Jewish audience about a Samaritan to tell them-- to tell them, remember your ancestors as well. They were captive, and they found themselves in a desperate situation. And the Samaritan stood by them and helped them.
So our Lord is teaching us how to dialogue with others by recalling good stories from the old days. Between all religions there are really dark history, dark pages, horrible stories. But there are some good stories to recall to say we are human beings and dialogue is possible as well.
TIM O'DONNELL: That actually leads into one of the questions here. What do you think ancient and early Christianity-- the question is in the Roman Empire, maybe more particularly, in the Middle East-- can teach us about dealing with Christian persecution today, particularly in Iraq?
In other words, are there stories to be drawn from earlier history? And you did say very clearly we want to look forward, not-- before we look back. But presumably, there are some wellsprings of inspiration from the past as well.
BASHAR WARDA: I would say over the last 100 years, or probably 300 years, religion has been put aside. And as a result, we've seen and experienced big wars that devastated the human race still. But most of the big, what we call these ideologies of the last centuries-- gone. Fascism, Nazism, communism, and even the new ones-- it will disappear, and religion will come back again-- religion.
Because it's the only voice that gives meaning to the life of people. And people were surprised. How come, for example, over 3,000 young people of European and Western education joined ISIS? People were not from, what we call, Islamic or Arabian background. No, no. Those were people who were born in Europe, America, of European origins, joins.
Those young people were searching for meaning for life, in that sense. And they did not, unfortunately. They found it in this horrible way.
But my point is that religion is coming back. And we are-- we, as Christians, we have to be prepared really-- prepared to be there in a way to give from the richness of our spirituality, our pastoral care. That was always the power of the Christianity in the beginning-- always ready to give answer.
We are the makers of hope in a hopeless situation, as we have in Iraq. Yeah. We create hope. We don't wait for a hope. We create a hope, and we make it, and we live it, in a sense, to be together in that sense.
So that was the power of the Christianity, the hope that gave to the whole world in the beginning. And always, our ancestors were ready to give an answer for that hope. And I hope that also we, as Christians, be ready. Because the next task will be caring for all the people who are tired-- tired, exhausted from this culture.
TIM O'DONNELL: You spoke about the cooperation between the Christian churches-- between Catholic and Orthodox churches and so on. Can you talk a little bit more about that, more about how that happens on the ground.
BASHAR WARDA: On the ground when-- for example, when ISIS attacked, we immediately formed a commission of bishops from all churches centralizing all the communication, meeting regularly, almost every day, it was. Because especially the first three weeks was really quite tense. We were always receiving people, and we had to do this and that.
We've agreed that none of us would ask who you are, from where you are. The clinics were open to all. The food supply were open to all. This kind of material help we're always ready to be distributed to all. And thank God, we continue that cooperation.
So today in Erbil, for example, with my colleagues, brothers, the bishops of Assyrian, Syriac Catholic, Syriac Orthodox, we meet regularly. And on WhatsApp, we have a great group that we share with each other so many good things, even some jokes that just fresh your day, which is great. So I would say that this kind of friendship is also-- was a message, was a witness to our people that, yes, in this time we show-- we experienced what it means to be Christian.
TIM O'DONNELL: I'm going to-- just one more question, given the time we have here. The United States has had a deep involvement in Iraq, going back to 2002 in particular. Do you see-- or what sort of responsibility do you think the United States has towards Iraq, towards the Christians of Iraq, today and going forward?
BASHAR WARDA: It would remain the responsibility of the American government when it comes to that part of the world. And when it comes to the minorities, I think they bear a responsibility, not because they were responsible for what happened to the Christians. But it was part of the whole intervention and invasion into that country.
So in that situation, we are very vulnerable communities, very marginalized. So we need the attention when it comes to political discussion always to be present in any political dialogue that happens between the Americans and the Iraqi government.
Of course, we thank God that the US aid have started really dealing with faith-based communities after years of saying no, this is not in our mandate. But I think we need more of that. Because, you see, Christians are small in number. They don't have the tribal, political backup that's needed to really enter within the Iraqi politicians and politics.
But, therefore, they are marginalized, pushed out of the important jobs. Even some of the qualified professors, doctors, were pushed out in favor of some other, I mean, party, ruling groups. So here, you need to strengthen institutions-- of course, not to strengthen people or personnels, but institutions.
I mentioned, for example, there are 17 schools, three hospitals you could go to and give the aid that's needed so they could really expand their work, make jobs possible more and more. These kind of empowering programs, this kind of intervention is needed, not more than that. Because any political support, I think, it would be understood, or mistakenly understood. And this would harm the Christians more than help them.
TIM O'DONNELL: Well, thank you so much, Your Excellency. And I'm sorry I couldn't get to every single question that came up. We had a lot of good questions. Please do come to the reception at 45 Hawthorn Street later on for further conversation. And again, thank you so much.
BASHAR WARDA: Thank you, Tim. Thank you, again.
TIM O'DONNELL: Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
SPEAKER 2: Sponsors-- HDS Catholics and Friends, Harvard Catholic Forum, HKS Catholic Caucus.
SPEAKER 1: Copyright 2022, the President and Fellows of Harvard College.